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    "Armory Page" Functionality & Workflow Question

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    boddole
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    "Armory Page" Functionality & Workflow Question

    Post by boddole on Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:17 am

    First off, I'd like to say thank you for putting this site together, and that while this post may come off as 'complaining' I really don't mean it that way:
     
    "Gear Window" - Saving multiple "Gear Slots":
    My understanding is that if I want to save multiple "Gear Slots" from this window that each slot must be individually exported and then later brought back in whatever order I desire, is that correct?
     
    "Gear Window" - Behavior when loading "Profiles":
    Is it intentional that if you load more than 1 slot in, then load a profile, slots get 'deleted' (seemingly at random)? I can't quite predict what will happen yet, but either all but 1 slot gets removed, or only 1 slot gets removed, or sometimes all slots are preserved...not sure what the cause of that is.
     
    "Config Window" - "Modifiers":
    Are 'modifiers' even 'saved'? It seems that when loading in profiles either these setting are wrong (unchanged from what they were previously) or will display one setting (such as r8), yet if you open the dropdown menu you will see another setting highlighted in yellow (such as rC).
     
    "Config Window" - relationship to "Memory Settings / Update Link":
    Is using 'Update Export Link' needed in order to save value changes or just what 'types / sections' of data that you want saved?
     
    Misc. - Using Composite Gear with Presets:
    Just a small suggestion, when using presets on such items, perhaps a 'note' somewhere on the gear piece would be nice as to what preset the gear is using (if at all). When going through multiple gear configurations on multiple sets, I do worry if I have correctly set each gear piece and a 'text note' somewhere on the gear would really help out there.

    Misc. - Item placement in "Storage Space":
    Perhaps it could be possible to move items around inside of each Storage Space tab (as opposed to dragging it out to the Gear Window, then dragging it back to Storage?
     

    Thank again for building all of this stuff in the first place, it's quite a nice resource to have.
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    Re: "Armory Page" Functionality & Workflow Question

    Post by Shippuu on Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:28 am

    Thank you for the feedback, I actually don't get much of it at all.

    I'll address these in order, as best I can:

    1: On multiple gear tabs
    Yes, each profile saves the gear in the tab you are currently viewing. EX: If you are looking at tab 4 and save your profile, it will save the gear from tab 4. It will then open into whatever tab you are viewing when you open a profile.

    So if you want to open 10 sets, you would open a profile on tab 1, go to gear tab 2 and open the next profile, and so on. It is structured this way due to the sheer size of the set links. There is a capacity limit of 2.5 MB on localStorage, and while that is MASSIVE for pure text, a profile that contains 10 sets would still eat a chunk of it. 200 of those would fully max it out, entirely on their own. Having to plan around the very real possibility of such a thing occurring, I chose to limit them to one set.

    2: Profile loading
    The intended functionality is that when you open a profile, it removes every piece of gear in the tab you are viewing, and the NX tab, and then equips in the gear from the profile. If this is not how it is behaving, then you've found a bug. If you are experiencing a bug and can replicate it, tell me how, and then I will fix it (ideally on the same day, depending on complexity).

    3: Modifiers
    This sounds like a visual bug. I confess to considering this low priority compared to working on the v3 Armory, but I will look into this right after making this post, and fix it on the spot if it is doing what I suspect it is. If it isn't, it will depend on how difficult the fix is as to whether I will do it or not, v2 code is scary to me now (I will get into this a bit in the later responses).

    EDIT: I've just looked into this, and confirmed that there is a visual bug here. I opened a profile, set my Light Armor Proficiency to rA, and then opened the same profile again. My DEF correctly reflected the r5 value, and the skill showed r5, but the selected value showed rA. As a bit of a peek behind the curtain, the selected value is set entirely separately from the actual used value, which has led to this bug. Opening a profile apparently updates the value itself, but not this "selected value" marker.

    EDIT 2: I've just rolled out a patch for this, if you are already on the page, you will need to refresh to get the updated file. If you newly open the page, you may need to refresh upon loading it, to get the noncached copy. Did this fix the issue you observed?

    4: The Memory Settings Dialog
    Update Export Link regenerates the block of text that it provides for you to copy as a backup. This text is only updated when the window is opened, or when you click Update Export Link. As an unrelated thing, I apologize for how annoying this window is to use. I absolutely hate how temperamental the text boxes are for copying/pasting, but I don't think I can properly fix it without huge changes.

    5: Gear Presets
    Is this not visible just from the stats on the item? Presets function by applying pre-determined values to the gear, and do not actually do any unique actions to it. I would have to implement new code for gear to identify itself as having been given a preset. If I'm missing the mark on what you mean, please clarify. I've had thoughts before of a "Helper" window, but the code of the site has never really been compatible with such a thing. Well, until v3 anyway.

    6: Storage Window
    This is absolutely something I intend to put into v3. I realize that I am making lots of talk about v3 in these replies about the live site, but I truly do believe that it is better for me to work on it than trying to make lots of patch fixes to the v2 site.

    If you check out the Dev Log section, you will see how far along v3 has come, and infact later today before I sleep, another one will be going up about the newly functional Gear window and nearly complete link functionality on it.




    The main issue with me applying fixes to v2, particularly messing with the Memory Import/Export functionality, is that the v2 code is messy. It's vastly cleaner than it used to be, certainly, but it's still a relatively disorganized mess, with functions linking all over the place.

    I haven't done any kind of serious functionality adjustment on v2 in many months, and it has been even longer since I even looked at the code for Memory Import/Export, or other major functions. I can honestly say that I am not familiar with the code anymore, and I am scared to mess with it. If it applies an incorrect value to localStorage, it could break it to a point where the page errors on load (AKA no longer functional).

    The v2 code is shaky enough that this is possible, and so I have been making only bare minimum changes to it for the last few months (critical fixes, new item/enemy additions, stat corrections, little to nothing else).
    boddole
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    Re: "Armory Page" Functionality & Workflow Question

    Post by boddole on Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:05 pm

    Thanks for the follow-up, now here comes mine (I'm using Chrome btw):
     
    1: On multiple gear tabs
    I can totally appreciate not wanting do you your own database in order to house all of that potential player information.
     
    2: Profile loading
    This brings up a question: are profiles 'only in use' when the UI shows 'Delete/Edit/Export' as valid options (not grayed out) )?

    Anyway, "equips in the gear from the profile" is kind of confusing to me. Do you mean the Storage gets loaded? Or that whatever Gear Slot tab you were looking at when you saved your profile should get loaded into the Gear Window?
     
    That aside, here is an example of what I'm talking about:
    Gear Window 1 get Heremon Helm , Gear Window 2 gets Noblesse Helm , 3 gets Arma Helm -> Memory Settings updated while looking at Gear Window tab 3 -> export profile -> import profile (still looking at tab 3)-> Gear Windows slots 1 and 2 are unchanged, the Arma Helmet in tab 3 is gone.
     
    Ex2.
    Gear Window 1 get Heremon Helm , Gear Window 2 gets Noblesse Helm , 3 gets Arma Helm -> Memory Settings updated while looking at Gear Window tab 3 -> export profile -> import profile (now looking at tab 2) -> tabs 1 and 3 are unchanged, while tab 2 is empty.
     
    3: Modifiers
    Unfortunately I'm still seeing it (Light Armor showing r5 in the window, but rA in the dropdown in yellow). And I've actually noticed a new problem (values not changing / being updated):
    Profile loaded -> change Def from r3 to rA -> Memory Settings , update export link -> Profiles , export , copy link -> change Def back to 3 and change from Karok to Fiona (just to make it obvious) -> import profile , load profile : Def still showing r3.
     
    4: The Memory Settings Dialog
    If the text is updated when opening the window, what purpose does having an 'update button serve at that point? Just make more updates after the user opened the window -then- made changes to the settings (otherwise they'd have to open the window again)?
     
    5: Gear Presets
    I guess what it comes down to is that I can't remember min/mid/max rolls for every composite material (or in all honesty, am too lazy to). A 'piece of text somewhere on the item UI'  would just be something like "Preset : Min" or something like that to avoid all the memorization. I'd imagine this would apply to every 'casual user' as well.
     
    6: Storage Window
    Great to hear.
     
    "Dev Log section / The main issue with me applying fixes to v2"
    I understand completely, didn't even realize there was a new version in the works.
     
    "Thank you for the feedback, I actually don't get much of it at all"

    Unfortunate, but I guess somewhat unavoidable due to this being a 'niche' site on an already 'nice' game...I can kind of sympathize you with you ('kind of' because I haven't invested nearly as much time as you have), I did some work on 'adjusting' the 'damage formula / effective attack formula' to work with a bigger range of values and flat out 'work better' than it does currently. And while it got a decent amount of views on the main forums, it only got ~3 comments that even asked questions about it from other people...
    Shippuu
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    Re: "Armory Page" Functionality & Workflow Question

    Post by Shippuu on Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:16 pm

    I don't understand all of your references to using the Memory Settings Dialog. It has *zero* relation to usage of the site. You only ever need it to perform a total backup of your entire site settings, or to apply a backup. Most users will probably never once have a reason to even look at it. I feel like this is the cause of a lot of your issues.

    To load a profile, you open it by double clicking its listing on your profile list. Import/Export serve to offer data backups of your profiles, in the event of wanting to move it to another computer, or some similar task. As with the Memory Settings Dialog, very few users have any need to use this.

    The active profile is actually ambiguous in v2, because of some oversights that were made in the design. The "active" profile is the one that has its name shown on your Stats tab, to the left of level. However, the selected profile (single click) determines which profile that Edit/Delete/Export apply to.

    Regarding the Modifiers issues, try it again loading the profiles via double click, rather than creating new copies of them via Import.

    For presets: I don't have anywhere to put such a thing on the current Preview Window template. I could make a spot, but that comes back to being uncertain about larger edits to v2. I'll make a note of it for when I am working on the Right Click Menu on v3, which is probably soon.
    boddole
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    Re: "Armory Page" Functionality & Workflow Question

    Post by boddole on Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:17 pm

    "Memory Settings Dialog. It has *zero* relation to usage of the site"
    Ok, I got confused by, "Update Export Link regenerates the block of text that it provides for you to copy as a backup. This text is only updated when the window is opened, or when you click Update Export Link". For some reason I thought I had to open it or certain modules wouldn't update before exporting them.

    So I did some testing specifically avoiding "Memory Settings":
    -> Importing and loading a profile cause all gear in the current Gear Window tab to be cleared (not sure if that is supposed to happen).
    -> Still getting mismatches and wrong data from Modifiers.

    Probably tomorrow I'll do a screen recording(s) and hopefully that will clearly show what I'm seeing on my end / be more useful than me trying to chat about it.

    -Also, should I 'clear my browser cache' for your site (or something like that) to help reset things?
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    Re: "Armory Page" Functionality & Workflow Question

    Post by Shippuu on Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:33 pm

    Importing and Exporting profiles is not a normal use feature. You should only be using that as a way to transfer profiles from one computer to another, or to save the exports to a text file as a backup for if your cache is purged. The bug fix I applied to skill ranks does not affect this usage (I think) as these are very rarely used features, and probably call different functions than the one I edited.

    If the site is functioning at all, then your cache is fine. If you had something corrupt in it, the Armory would be failing to start.

    (Sleeping in a few minutes, so this'll be last quick reply of the day.)
    boddole
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    Re: "Armory Page" Functionality & Workflow Question

    Post by boddole on Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:58 am

    Ok, I'll stay away from Memory Settings & Import/Export then. That said, I've linked to a video where it still seems something isn't right (or that I'm doing more things I shouldn't be doing) when it comes to values in "Base Character Info" not saving properly.

    Link:
    https://youtu.be/CPyU_OnzzkU
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    Re: "Armory Page" Functionality & Workflow Question

    Post by Shippuu on Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:33 am

    This is normal behavior.

    On the Base Stats tab, that button initially says Start. Upon loading a profile, loading a set link, loading a #last link, or any other way of loading info that makes the rest of the Armory appear, it changes to say Update. This is to reflect the fact that when you click Update, it updates the Base Stats used in calculation on the Armory.

    Profiles themselves are only saved when you click Save on the Profile options on their tab. So, in this video, when you entered your Base Stats as 1000, you will notice that they did not initially change; not until you clicked Update. To save it to the profile, you would then need to go to your Profiles tab and click Save. There is no auto-save for profiles due to the large amount of writes that it would have to do to localStorage to actually save every time a change is made.

    I do want to refer back to my earlier post about the "active" profile being ambiguous, since it's relevant here. For Edit, Delete, and Export, the profile they act on is the one that is single clicked (shown in Blue, if its not also in Gold for being in use). On the other hand, Save always refers to the profile that is shown in Gold. This means that if you refresh the page, you will not have an "in use" profile to save to, until you open a profile by double clicking, or create a new one with New.
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    Re: "Armory Page" Functionality & Workflow Question

    Post by boddole on Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:07 am

    Makes sense after you explained it. Though perhaps for version 3, an abbreviated 'usage guide' somewhere on the page/site might be nice to more/less avoid all this in the first place for new users.

    That said, thanks for helping me out, and version 3 sounds quite promising - thanks for the effort.
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